Muscle Gain Offsetting Weight Loss

A lot have people have been saying on here that muscle doesn't offset weight loss but it doesn't make sense to me. It might not last very long but doesn't there have to be a period of time where your fat goes down and your muscle goes up? And consequently couldn't they balance out, if only briefly? It might be a seriously short time, I admit, but still... Please, explain.

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To build muscle, you need a calorie surplus. To lose fat, you need a calorie deficit. You don't do both at the same time.

The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.

Truly building muscle mass requires a surplus and a lot of work. You might get some water retention but you will not build muscle at a deficit ... especially not at a large deficit.

AbiBain wrote: »

The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.

No it doesn't. Leave the misconceptions and embrace science.

The body uses fuel from food before stored fuel. It doesn't store excess proteins as fat. Where is the material for muscle building in your paradigm?

Let me rephrase: Say you are losing weight because you are working to gaining muscle - could you in theory, if only once, gain as much weight in muscle as you lost from your excess fat?

AbiBain wrote: »

The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.

I did answer the question, you just don't like the answer I guess.

AbiBain wrote: »

The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.

Muscle will HELP burn fat at calorie deficit. Muscle building requires adding mass which intern means adding weight. You don't add lean weight on a deficit. No journal of medicine would disagree with that.

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it is possible to to re-composition, that is to loose some fat and gain some muscle, but only under a some very limited circumstances, and to be honest unless you are taking a lot of steroids the amount of muscle you can gain is really fairly small amounts and isn't going to offset weight loss in any meaningful way.

AbiBain wrote: »

Let me rephrase: Say you are losing weight because you are working to gaining muscle - could you in theory, if only once, gain as much weight in muscle as you lost from your excess fat?

You cannot lose weight when you are working to gain muscle. I am thinking you mean losing fat while working on gaining muscle, but again, it does not work that way. In most cases you actually gain fat to while working on gaining muscle. Usually a 50/50 split. That is what Bulk and Cut cycles are about.

There is a phenomenon out there called a Re-comp that sort of does what you are talking about, but it is a slow and tedious process that most people do not have the patience for.

KingRat79 wrote: »

it is possible to to re-composition, that is to loose some fat and gain some muscle, but only under a some very limited circumstances, and to be honest unless you are taking a lot of steroids the amount of muscle you can gain is really fairly small amounts and isn't going to offset weight loss in any meaningful way.

Thank you! I will stop telling people about this now as it sounds like they'd have to be pretty special to be experiencing it but I'm glad it is technically a thing.

Here's a bit of my experience as a complete n00b at resistance training with a calorie deficit, for 4 months.

My strength has definitely increased. I can do more pushups, one pull-up, more pistol squats, etc. Most of that is from my muscles "learning" the movements, and their getting better glycogen storage capacity. A little of it is actual muscle growth. A LITTLE growth.

BUT, here is the important part. The growth requires energy, and matter. The matter comes from the protein in my diet. The energy comes from the food in my diet, or fat loss. Either way, the calories required for building muscle are coming from somewhere, and the mass I added to my muscles CAN'T appear from nowhere. It's rebuilding from fat, or food.

So as long as I keep my calorie deficit to 3500 cals/week, I'm losing 1 lbs of fat per week (not linear, yada yada). BUT, I might be losing 1.01 pound of fat and that .01 pound of fat might be used to build a tiny bit of muscle. But I can't have 3500 cals/week deficit, lose 1 lb fat and gain 1 lb muscle. Nope, not going to happen.

AbiBain wrote: »

KingRat79 wrote: »

it is possible to to re-composition, that is to loose some fat and gain some muscle, but only under a some very limited circumstances, and to be honest unless you are taking a lot of steroids the amount of muscle you can gain is really fairly small amounts and isn't going to offset weight loss in any meaningful way.

Thank you! I will stop telling people about this now as it sounds like they'd have to be pretty special to be experiencing it but I'm glad it is technically a thing.

And for the record, I have had great success on recomp mode.

A person new to lifting can also put on some muscle while in a deficit or maintenance as well and people who used to lift and get back into it after a long break can usually add as well without a surplus.

The general answer is as stated though. You need a surplus for muscle building and a deficit for fat loss. That's how it works for 99% of the population anyway.

Hornsby wrote: »

To build muscle, you need a calorie surplus. To lose fat, you need a calorie deficit. You don't do both at the same time.

Going to have to disagree with this...

I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.

DedRepublic wrote: »

Hornsby wrote: »

To build muscle, you need a calorie surplus. To lose fat, you need a calorie deficit. You don't do both at the same time.

Going to have to disagree with this...

Do you still disagree after my post above this one? lol

avskk wrote: »

I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.

Look at my post a few replies above, some elements of the answer there.

DedRepublic wrote: »

Hornsby wrote: »

To build muscle, you need a calorie surplus. To lose fat, you need a calorie deficit. You don't do both at the same time.

Going to have to disagree with this...

Neither of you are wrong. Novices with a bunch of extra fat can do both without a problem. As you get more advanced with your lifts and leaner, you'll have to choose if you want to bulk or cut.

avskk wrote: »

I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.

Neural adaptation

avskk wrote: »

I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.

Muscle size is not directly proportional to strength. Bigger muscles generally mean we are stronger but if we have not been using our existing muscle it has potential to lift more weight than it has been. This is where most "noob" gains come from. Also, obese people in some cases are able to increase muscle size, but it is minimal compared to a good bulk cycle at a caloric surplus. There is a more technical explanation and if you google neural adaptation, which Hornsby mentioned above, you will get more information.

Thanks! Glycogen storage improvement and neural adaptation -- I don't know why that wasn't clear to me.

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