muscle versus fat
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About turning carbs in to amino acids or whatever. Not going to happen.
Carbohydrates: Carb = Carbon, Hydrate = Water (H2O)
Amino Acids = Amino(Amine) NH2 (has nitrogen), Acid(Carboxylic Acid)
Frankly, Carbs = Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon
amino acids = Hydrogen, Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen
Carbs need nitrogen to even be considered to convert to amino acids.
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misscaligreen wrote: »I have a question and probably a dumb one but I'm going to ask it anyways because even smart questions negative feedback lol so here goes.....if you were eating and maintaining a calorie deficit and losing weight regularly without any exercise is it possible to build muscle or are you saying that in order to build muscle you have to be eating a surplus of calories? I I'm very confused after reading all the posts. I have lost about 60 pounds through diet alone and I am planning to start exercising at some point in the near future to maintain a large deficit so that the weight loss does not stop or slow down I have a considerable amount to lose still. I would like to do strength training because it's my understanding that the effects of strength training workout outlast cardio workouts. any info would be helpful thanks in advance
if you are not on a progressive lifting program or exercising you will not gain muscle.0 -
Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/
What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.
Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids
I provided a source. It says there is a relationship between oxidation priority and storage. It also says the pathway from glucose to fat is extremely infrequent in practical, realistic terms, to the point of immateriality.0 -
Doesn't sound like that's the case:I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab.
You're not building ANY muscle on that.
You're either miscalculating your calories in or out (or probably a combination of both).0 -
Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/
What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.
Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids
An extremely inefficient process in humans that only occurs after massive carbohydrate overfeeding.
Only when CHO energy intake exceeds TEE does DNL in liver or adipose tissue contribute significantly to the whole-body energy economy. It is concluded that DNL is not the pathway of first resort for added dietary CHO, in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981
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atypicalsmith wrote: »Furrycatpig wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »Does anyone know how long my weight will go up because of muscle before I stay losing? It is really discouraging to be working so hard and trying to eat right and still not losing weight.
It's a myth that you gain weight with muscles. Stop overeating and exercise more, and it will come off.
A myth? No, you can gain weight from new muscle. But you need to be eating a calorie surplus, and weight training to gain muscle.
Yes you need to be lifting about four hours a day and eating 5,000 calories. That is NOT what the OP was talking about.
lulz0 -
Are you tracking and accurately weighing everything? If I had to guess, you are likely under estimating the amount of food you are eating, and over estimating the calories you are burning. Or eating back too many of the over estimated burned calories.
How long have you been at this? You wouldn't be gaining muscle at a higher rate than losing fat if you are eating at a deficit.
It's VERY hard to eyeball portions. If you really are weighing and tracking everything honestly, talk to your doctor. There may be something going on.
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I like when conversations go in the direction it did because it weeds out so many people.0
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Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/
What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.
Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids
I provided a source. It says there is a relationship between oxidation priority and storage. It also says the pathway from glucose to fat is extremely infrequent in practical, realistic terms, to the point of immateriality.
Yes, but we're talking about storage as fat, not oxidation. The context is eating at TDEE or above. Yes the macronutrient you eat the most is the one that gets oxidized the most which will halt burning of body fat. What do you think happens if your glycogen stores are full, and you eat more carbs? THey need to go some where. They won't be in the blood stream because insulin will bring it down. If it doesn't bring it down you'll be suffering from hyperglycemia.
"Carbohydrates can be stored as liver or muscle glycogen, under rare circumstances they are converted to and stored as fat."
What is this "RARE" circumstance? He leaves the table open for interpretation. He's not clear, -2 points for lyle. As I said context is important, Are we talking about surplus, TDEE or deficit?
Once storage is full, liver/muscles it will get converted to fat. Here is an example.
This raw food vegan. He lost weight keeping track of his calories. He didn't trust what the other vegans where saying, "eat all the carbs you want and not get fat." Once he was at a lower weight, he decided to try it. He ate as much carbs as he wanted, and as expected, he got fat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShmoS0AnPNA 0 -
what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend!
What type of exercise do you do? 0 -
lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
Wow.0 -
As I suggested in my previous post.FunkyTobias wrote: »Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/
What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.
Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids
An extremely inefficient process in humans that only occurs after massive carbohydrate overfeeding.
Only when CHO energy intake exceeds TEE does DNL in liver or adipose tissue contribute significantly to the whole-body energy economy. It is concluded that DNL is not the pathway of first resort for added dietary CHO, in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
*sigh*...
so you do KETO for 2-3 hours and then what?
do you have before and after DEXA scan results to show how much body fat you lost and how much LBM you gained?
too many carbs is not a problem, unless you have a medical condition or you eat so many carbs you are in a calorie surplus..
is there any other bro science you would like to include?
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
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Well I guess I spoke too soon0
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
dont forget to cleanse toxins with a warm water/lemon/chili pepper mixture first thing when you wake up0 -
this thread...lulz.0
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OP, buy a food scale. Weigh and log everything you eat. Keep track for 6 weeks. Continue on your exercise. In six weeks, let us know what you learned.0
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wow...All I did was offer my opinion. Just because some of you don't agree with it you think it's ok to bully? I have thick skin but that was really uncalled for. And yes for myself to many carbs are a problem.0
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