muscle versus fat

Does anyone know how long my weight will go up because of muscle before I stay losing? It is really discouraging to be working so hard and trying to eat right and still not losing weight.

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unknown

Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.

unknown

eviehowie wrote: »

Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.

No one was trying to railroad you. There was some accurate information in the thread but just because it wasn't what you expected to hear doesn't mean it was some sort of slam against you.

unknown

eviehowie wrote: »

Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.

Carbs or not, weight loss is about calories. Carbs address a totally different issue.

unknown

eviehowie wrote: »

Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.

Your problem likely stems from inaccurate calorie tracking and consuming more calories than you imagine.

unknown

I don't understand how some of you stated that it cannot be muscle gains... If your body has the extra fat that can be burn... You body can use that energy to build muscle

unknown

eviehowie wrote: »

Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.

How do you measure/log your food? Do you own a food scale?

unknown

emmoen wrote: »

I don't understand how some of you stated that it cannot be muscle gains... If your body has the extra fat that can be burn... You body can use that energy to build muscle

No it doesn't work that way. You can't turn fat into muscle. You can build muscle, lifting heavy, in a calorie surplus. You will gain fat too. If you're truly in a deficit, you will not be building muscle. Especially if you're not lifting/resistance training.

unknown

emmoen wrote: »

I don't understand how some of you stated that it cannot be muscle gains... If your body has the extra fat that can be burn... You body can use that energy to build muscle

Your body can use the fat that you have stored as energy as it does when you are in a caloric deficit but fat cells cannot revert the metabolic process and become the amino acids in order to promote muscle protein synthesis.

Random link for you:

http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/wsas/departments/natural_science/biology/bio1003/organic.html

unknown

I understand that fats don't turn into proteins but when lipids are broken down to form ATP... The ATP can be used to synthesis amino acids which in turn build muscle when you are lifting at a calorie deficit... This process is usually done on overweight beginners

unknown

I have a question and probably a dumb one but I'm going to ask it anyways because even smart questions negative feedback lol so here goes.....if you were eating and maintaining a calorie deficit and losing weight regularly without any exercise is it possible to build muscle or are you saying that in order to build muscle you have to be eating a surplus of calories? I I'm very confused after reading all the posts. I have lost about 60 pounds through diet alone and I am planning to start exercising at some point in the near future to maintain a large deficit so that the weight loss does not stop or slow down I have a considerable amount to lose still. I would like to do strength training because it's my understanding that the effects of strength training workout outlast cardio workouts. any info would be helpful thanks in advance

unknown

Initial strength gains are not usually due to muscle mass gain but actually the activation of more muscle fibers

unknown

misscaligreen wrote: »

I have a question and probably a dumb one but I'm going to ask it anyways because even smart questions negative feedback lol so here goes.....if you were eating and maintaining a calorie deficit and losing weight regularly without any exercise is it possible to build muscle or are you saying that in order to build muscle you have to be eating a surplus of calories? I I'm very confused after reading all the posts. I have lost about 60 pounds through diet alone and I am planning to start exercising at some point in the near future to maintain a large deficit so that the weight loss does not stop or slow down I have a considerable amount to lose still. I would like to do strength training because it's my understanding that the effects of strength training workout outlast cardio workouts. any info would be helpful thanks in advance

When you lose weight without exercise, or more correctly resistance training, you also will lose muscle mass and not just fat. The muscle gains they are discussing in this thread are often called "newbie gains" and occur in people that have a significant amount of weight to lose and have been extremely sedentary. The reason strength training is recommended even when you are eating at a deficit is to try to keep as much muscle mass or lean body mass as possible because the more lean body mass you have the higher your resting metabolism will be. It is very difficult to rebuild lost muscle mass, especially for women.

Hope this makes sense.

unknown

Can you build muscle in a calorie deficit? Through out my experience, I have gone back and forth between "no" and "yes". Some talk about newbie gains, heybales had a study that showed it can be done. But frankly, I have yet to personally see it.

I have been thinking about this question for a while, since I saw the original post that brought up the subject. We first need to define what a calorie deficit is from the biochemical perspective. Obviously it's when we burn more calories than what we consume. But the new question would be, "how does our body know when we're in a deficit or surplus?" Obviously the middle ground is eating at TDEE. What makes TDEE that special point? It has to do with regulation of fat cells. WHen more fat is leaving the fat cells then coming in, you're in a deficit. But is the opposite true? WHen more fat cells is going in to the cells than coming out you're in a surplus? No, it's possible to be in a surplus with out getting fat. Think of growing children. There has to be a hormone that signals our body to be catabolic or anabolic. A hormone that when it's low causes us to be catabolic and a hormone that when it's elevated caueses us to be anabolic. THe answer was obvious, duh... insulin, but that's not the only one at play, there has to be another hormone that monitors the regulation of fat cells. This would obviously be leptin. So my conclusion was the master hormones that regulate weight have to be insulin and leptin.

Is there any evidence to support my theory?

"There is now considerable consensus that the adipocyte hormone leptin and the pancreatic hormone insulin are important regulators of food intake and energy balance."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14749506

So what does all this have to do with muscle building in a calorie deficit? In this case, leptin is also known as the "master hormone" it has a negative/positive feed back loop with other hormones. Insulin is known as one of the most powerful anabolic hormones. When you're in a calorie deficit, insulin will be lower, so more than likely you won't be in an anabolic state. If you're in a calorie deficit this also signals leptin, which controls a wide variety of hormones.

So i conclude you more than likely won't build muscle in a calorie deficit. It's not so much about the calories, it's more due to the down regulation of anabolic hormones that are triggered by a calorie deficit.

unknown

emmoen wrote: »

I understand that fats don't turn into proteins but when lipids are broken down to form ATP... The ATP can be used to synthesis amino acids which in turn build muscle when you are lifting at a calorie deficit... This process is usually done on overweight beginners

Beta oxidation breaks down fatty acids eventually resulting in ATP for energy. At what point does it synthesis amino acids?

emmoen wrote: »

Initial strength gains are not usually due to muscle mass gain but actually the activation of more muscle fibers

CNS adaptation also plays a big role.

unknown

Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »

eviehowie wrote: »

Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.

How do you measure/log your food? Do you own a food scale?

And were you at 1500 cals per week since Feb? And how tall are you and if it's rehab what sort of injury? Are you on medication? And how "brisk" is your walking? And do you eat those cals back? It all helps to get a better picture

unknown

Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.

Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it and store any extra. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.

So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. So to the extent that fat is also being consumed, it will be stored until energy needed. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/

unknown

atypicalsmith wrote: »

MrM27 wrote: »

It won't generally be going up.

Sorry to see you in jail again.

Can someone explain the jail thing to me? What's that about?
Sorry to hijack, I just keep seeing people in jail and don't know what it means. Always the same people though LOL

unknown

ahoy_m8 wrote: »

Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.

Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.

So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/

What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.

Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids

unknown

Pu_239 wrote: »

Furrycatpig wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

If you're over weight, and in a calorie deficit(losing weight) your muscle mass won't go UP. If you're gaining and in a calorie deficit, it's due to water weight.

You said you have been trying for a while now? Well as i originally said, if you're not losing you're not in a calorie deficit, so lower your calories.

Lower her cals? We don't know if she's tracking her current cals properly yet.

Not tracking properly can also be known as estimating. If she's estimating 1,800 calories a day with no results, what would happen if she estimates 1,400 calories a day??

so take inaccurate information and add in more inaccurate information ....great recommendation...

OP - get a food scale and get more precise with your logging. I would also suggest making sure you are logging everything you eat.

unknown

emmoen wrote: »

I don't understand how some of you stated that it cannot be muscle gains... If your body has the extra fat that can be burn... You body can use that energy to build muscle

does not work that way ..

your body is not efficient to take excess fat and use that energy to convert it to muscle as your body has to prioritize other functions.

Also, if OP is lifting heavy she may get some newbie gains, but those will eventually peter out...